Longear or Dollar sunfish?

It might be at the extreme edge of their range, but could they be redbreast sunfish?

You are getting into that weird zone with Longears and Dollars that happens in the southern swampland from Texas to Alabama. 
There are several subspecies of longear in that region and the further into that swamp the longears look more and more like dollars. I have read lots of speculation on a third species in that region that has yet to be described. 

Here is a range maps I have been playing with over the last few years of the 6 discussed subspecies and the one undiscribed undefined.
I have always been fascinated by longears and how different each subspecies looks. In each region each is so distinct that it is almost possible to id the location from a picture.


 

Love the map, Jknuth (It now resides on my hard drive, if that's alright).. I've caught probably thousands of swampland long ears in South Alabama, and those look just slightly more like dollars than the ones I've caught. 

The main difference I see is the dollars have light spots on the breast, the longears don't. I dont know if that's a good way to distinguish them, though.

That is fascinating information, JKnuth.  This is a Longear (Western Longear) I caught in the San Antonio area.

And here is a Longear (Swampland Longear) caught locally in the Fish River Drainage....looking alot like a large Dollar.  The local Longears usually have blue upper lip while the Dollars do not.

This is another Longear from the next drainage east of Fish River, the Blackwater system in Baldwin County, AL.

Here is a local Dollar Sunfish, also from the Blackwater drainage in Baldwin County, AL.

Thats awesome.
Shows the odball southern longear perfectly.
All of the sub names except swampland are commonly used. I have only seen the swampland term used once, but its commonly known that there is a variant in that area that is distinct. Ill have to look for the blue lip thing.

Totally cool, can't wait to see more!

This is a long ear from the Yellow River drainage in southern Alabama.

This is a redbreast from the same stream.

I don't have any dollars from there.

More weird looking southern sunfish...

Longear from the Blackwater River system in Florida:

A Dollar from the Perdido River system on the Alabama/Florida border:

And a Redbreast from the Chipola River system in Florida:

Kinda cool to see all these different looks...

Caught this Longear last night in the Fish River system while looking for micros...   It has more pronounced vertical banding.

A slight tangent but someone here probably knows - how distinct is the Northern Longear?  I know some consider it worthy of being elevated to its own species but what are the "real" distinctions?  Habitat? Spawning?

I'm not debating whether it should be elevated or not (that is a complex issue) just curious what it makes it especially distinct.

Wow! What a cool thread! All those subspecies of Longear Sunfish in one post is really fascinating to look at!

how distinct is the Northern Longear?  I know some consider it worthy of being elevated to its own species but what are the "real" distinctions?  Habitat? Spawning?


They are pretty darn distinct.
They are much smaller rarely getting over 4", they are the only "Longear" with a red spot on the gill flap. The body shape is different (They are very round in cross section and have a stubby apearance)
The gillflap is much shorter and the mouth smaller.
They also can only survive in clear water where the other longear can survive in muddy waters. 

Here are a few very typical Northern Sunfish.







 

Every time I see those northern longears--especially the ones whose ears aren't all that long--I wonder how many I caught over the years and tossed back without even looking because I'd never heard of them and just thought "ho hum, another pumpkinseed." In the couple years since I learned that there are other species of sunfish all around me, I haven't caught any longears (both the northern and central are in my fishing area). And don't get me started on the imaginary orangespotted sunfish.

Here are a few of the known variants or subs or whatever they call them.

First the Northern 
Stubby body, rounder nose, smaller mouth, smaller gill flap with red.



Next the Central 
Similar in color to northerns, but reach a much larger size.  They have a thinner but taller body and larger mouth. Have a longer gill flap and lack red on the gill. 



The White river
Larger size more box shaped profile often with a high sloping forehead.
Body more intense orange. Blue markings less organized and more marbled in apearance. Gill flaop much larger and pointing striaght back or down and often lacking a white edge.



Western
Larger box shaped profile. Less marbled blue body markings and often only the scales are edged in blue.
Area above the anal fin and lower back third of the body has a noticable rusty to orange patch that ends rather sharply.



Swampland

Blue markings on the face and body thin and very sharp. The markings on the body form distinct dots. Gill flap edged in white.



Rio Grande

Intense red to orange patch behind the gills and under the pectoral fin.
Very few blue markings on the body. Found in texas headwaters of the Rio Grande drainage and more common in northern mexico.



The only sub I have had troubles finding information on is the great plains. to me it looks very similar to the central I honestly see no difference. 




 

Those Rio Grande Longears are sweet!

As long as were on the subject, heres another one.  This fish was entered in last years contest as a Dollar Sunfish and not rejected.  I believe this fish to be another Longear.

Sorry, I posted this last pic under Mongrel's kids account.  I was fixing up her lifelist for her and forgot to log out...

Here is my personal best Dollar Sunfish - best in size and color.  Caught in Beavwer Creek near Raeford NC this week.

Fish # 7 should be a great plains slongear. Joplin is in the Neosho drainage area.
basically the light edge on the gill flap and a slightly longer body then a central with a bit of a more orange hue to the tail with less blue marbling on the fins.

here is your Great plains and my Great plains 





Fish number 5 and 6 look like White river Longear 
They do extend up into the piney a bit as well. The gill flap on them isnt always down but its almost alwaysed pinched or kinked at its base. They have a more orange background color then the other subs. and have no white on the gill flap.









Here is a Central I got from illinois compared to yours from the wabash
Very heavy blue marbling taller body and white on the gill edge






As far as the smaller one we got tons of small longear in the james but they dont seem to develop the longer ear until they are about 4" long.
I dont think dollars are in the james.

did you happen to get any Smallmouth from Shoak near Joplin?
If so i would love to see pics. 
There should be Neosho Smallmouth in that area. Its a sub species but they are ccool looking. very slender and have a bit of an underbite. pretty pattern too.

There is alot of cross over for some of them so I really think they are subspecies. 
the northern is something different, they will never even occupy the same habitat. Northerns need clean clear water. 

I think there may be dollars in the south eastern part of the state where there are fliers but i am not 100% positive. 

As far as the smallies go I have seen a few neosho from Kansas years back. they were noticibly odd. 

Jknuth that is an awesome map and the contributions from everyone are incredible... You can't find this stuff like this anywhere on the Internet. Amazing...

Now your making me want to try the supposed Longear hotspot near me.  Caught alot of Sunnies outta there, but nothing that seems to be a Longear even though the DNR claims they're in there in numbers.  Glad I knocked this one out in Sconsin, but would be cool to pull off a chain Longear or maybe even a record for MN if they exsist.  Only 10 miles away!

This post really has me thinking how awesome mother nature truely is with all these vibrant non-tropical freshwater beauties.  Chinooks Designs might want to put up a poster or something on these sweet looking specimens!

Mags try shallow areas. 
Preferably with sand to gravel not much bigger then a marble. if you can find this area with bulrushes even better. then look close to shore in about 1-2 feet of water. I have noticed they tend to relate to areas with mussles in lakes near me. I have found them in 4 lakes in Wisconsin One in Vilas county in the northern part of the state. two in waushara county and one in fond du lac county. 
All lakes isolated and always in the same habitat. 

yep habitat is the key on Northern Longears. The ones we found in Northern MN all on sand in less than 2' of water.   Near bulrushes was best.  Sight fishing helped immensely, usually they weren't too hard to distinguish from the other sunnies.  Keep in mind that you are looking for sub-4" fish.  If you are seeing bigger sunfishes keep looking, and probably look shallower.  Small baits will help  - a single waxworm, tiny scrap of crawler, or a  #16 or smaller fly,