Reading some recent discussions on a carp forum got me to thinking about the topic. A couple of members here participated in that discussion (Eric, John).

Are most of you guys out there sight fishing for carp? I fish a lot of turbid sloughs and backwaters, so I have found it very difficult to employ this technique. The only situation I can think this would work is casting dries to tailing carp. That doesn't happen too often for me. Eric I know you like tying higher visibility carp flies. Anybody fish a nymph/indicator rig in the shallows? I know blind casting is considered a fruitless endeavor by many, but it seems that is the only I am able to hook up with a fish in these sloughs. I've also had decent success fishing current seams at a tailrace.

Does anyone fish carp using the tightline nymphing technique? I've used this technique almost exclusively, when nymph fishing. I find it allows the angler to stay more in tune with your fly, especially since species like suckers, carp, buffalo, etc., can take a fly so subtly, or lightning fast that it may be dificult to set the hook in time when using a strike indicator.

I'm just throwing this topic out there for discussion, in hopes that I'm not missing out on anything.

I sight-fish most of the time when targeting carp with flies. I like being able to pick the fish I want to catch. Same with fishing dry flies for stream trout. If six trout are rising in a run, and you blindly cast over them you may catch the smallest one and the fight will spook the larger fish. Get the big boy first, that's my motto. Sight-fishing makes this very easy. However, I have found that when it is extremely windy and sight-fishing is impossible on a shallow flat, an indicator works pretty good. You can use the wind to your advantage and swim a nymph around at the level you expect the carp to be at. and when the indicator hesitates set the hook. I have caught quite a few nice carp by doing this on days where the wind was riping 30 mph and hopes weren't very high. ~andy

I sight fish to carp 100% of the time in OR. If I can't see the fish, I don't make the cast. When in MN fishing in the spring Justin and I have had great success nymphing with indicators, but out here I don't have the same combination of moving water/holding carp. Most of my fishing in OR is done on the big flats of the Columbia, or stalking the edges of the smaller ponds and sloughs. I do fish a lot of turbid water, but I can always see a tail or a shadow, and in those cases I set the hook if the fish does anything that makes me think he might have taken the fly. I key on the tail speeding up, gills flaring, sharp head movement, or a change in posture. A lot of the fish I catch on the Columbia come a split second after I think to myself..."That fish looks excited!" The indicator nymphing has worked well in MN, specifically below dams. Just basic trout nymphing with an indicator and a two fly rig. I think in moving water they hold onto the fly or take it a bit more aggressively than they do in stagnant water, so you can detect a strike without as many visual cues.

John I agree with the part about taking a fly more confidently in moving water. That's one reason why tight line nymphing is so nice; once you feel the line tug, you know the fish is there and the hook is already set.

I guess I'll just have to live with the fact that it will be a rare occaison to sightfish carp out here. The fine silty soils of the red river basin stays suspended almost indefinitely in the backwaters and sloughs around here. Add to that an almost ever present wind, and it is just flat out tough to see fish some days. I was at about two arm lengths away from a carp tailing in front of me this summer in about a foot of water, and couldn't for the life of me see the fish, other than the portion of it's tail above water.

For now, I'll just have to keep relying visual clues, like the ones you guys mentioned. The one plus side about fishing the especially turbid waters here, is that it allows you to get a lot closer to the fish than you normally would in other waters.

I'm in the same situation as you. There are very few opportunities to properly sight fish for carp around here. One of the few chances that I do get actually comes at night, when boat activity subsides, and carp move in under the lights near a boat launch. There they stand out very well (and seem to have a difficult time seeing me). Otherwise, I tend to fly fish for them in slack areas off of a river or anywhere else where I may see carp activity. While I don't get to target a specific fish, enough casts into an area with multiple active fish will usually result in a take.

You said the only sight-fishing opportunities you can find are when you fish dries to tailing carp.....this makes no sense to me. If they are tailing, they are feeding on the bottom. For tailing carp, I like to drag a beadhead or flash bugger past them because the cloud of mud they create calls for a flashy pattern. Bead-heads are great for this. Actually, I tie a Caddis Pupa with a gold bead inside the veil that really gets a lot of strikes for me from tailing fish. As far as targeting surface-feeding carp, I have had good success at times with Cottonwood Seed imitations when this "hatch" is on. Find an area where currents collide or winds pile up the floating seeds, and chuck an airy, flush-floating CDC fly in the carp's path. They will be there if the seeds are there. Those damn blue-collar cloopers(sorry, Primus reference)......This also works when mayfly spinners carpet the water. Just get your fly in thier path and wait it out. Talk about nervous anticipation, you may have to let your fly sit for 15 minutes as a carp makes his way up to your fly. I love it! ~andy

Yeah, almost all the carp I catch on the fly are sight casted to. It is much more gratifying to me to see the fish I want to try to cast to (like Andy said). I get a huge rush when I cast my fly to a small group of cruising carp and get to see one or more of them break ranks and inhale my offering! Then I know all the fish I spooked and casts I blew were not in vain but part of the process (or at least I have talked myself into believing that). I have on occasion drifted and/or cast out to actively feeding fish that I could not pick out induvidually, and I have on occasion caught carp this way. The biggest fly caught carp I have taken was dead drifted wolly bugger through the current of a culvert, blind fished.

I have also spent maddening hours trying to dift a perfect nymph presentation to tailng carp in super muddy situations, knowing dang well the fly was where it ought to be, with no fish to show for it. I guess if I were to spend more time "blind" fishing for carp on the fly I would get more proficient at it...after all....even though I love to fish for trout with a dry fly, most of the time I'm nymphing for them sight unseen in water types that I know should hold fish.
.
I do use an indicator sometimes.... a tiny pich of bioputty, other times a dry fly with nymph dropper (not so often with carp because I know the weak link will fail if I have a big fish on) and sometimes the yarn kind, depending on the water.
I think if I am willing and don't mind playing around untill I get my indicator or whatever it is I'll be using to detect a strike (even by feel) set up for the current conditions I'lll see the results. Any gap I have will be magnified by the quick ejection of a carp.

Alot of words to just say that I like to sight cast for them 9 times out of ten, but I have been known to try other ways when sight casting is not an option.

well sight fishing is pretty much the only way to fly fish for carp. if you can not see the fish you will have to be very lucky. and you will probably get 1 per season. i fly fish a very very murcky lake so this is hard at times. but you have to stay mobile the lake i fish drops off to 2 feet right off shore. so you will be able to see the tails coming out of the water. and they are usually less than 5 feet from shore. and somtines right on the shore. in fact my 25 lb carp was sucking on the shore when i got it. all you could hear was a sucking sound and i couldnt see it. then i looked sown and she was right below my feet.(she is the one on my dp i got her on a bitch creek nymph with a 5 wt fly rod and 2 lb mono tippet. she took 2 hours to get in)if you have any other questions feel free to email me. i have gotton very good at murky water fly fishing for carp this past year. tight lines!
jake

i forgot my email... carpmanjake@hotmail.com

i have some great simply carp fly patterns that have produced very well for me. especially in the murky water. if you want them drop me a message.

Sight fishing is great, but what has also been outlined here is the concept of half-sight fishing... or seeing the fish or some sign/indicator/part of the fish and then presenting fly. That seems to be the most challenging, as you have to "know" when to set the hook... often times you find no connection, but when you set the hook based on a slight head movement or pause in a carp's path... and find weight on the line- that is one of the most rewarding pieces of any fishing endeavor.

Thre are PLENTY of opps for this type of fishing in MN. My experience has been that vantage point is key - it really helps if you can walk a high bank and look down on the fish... this is my favorite approach.

Also, you absolutely can blind nymph for carp and catch dozens to hundreds. In fact John Montana and I caught ~150 fish of approx 20+ species in one day doing nothing but blind nymphing a MN tailwater (http://fishingandthinking.blogspot.com/2006/05/annual-se-mn-flyfishing-tour-was-great.html). It can be a dominant scenario...

So I see it like this then:
100% sight fishing - see all of the fish, the take, etc.
Partial sight fishing - see some of the fish but rely on other cues.
Blind-nymphing - use an indicator and fish current.
And one other method - blind, but informed stripping of flies... meaning you know there is a pod of carp in a certain location, but due to positioning, vision, etc. you can't see any detail... I have had success throwing a nymph in there and keeping in contact with it... feeling "strikes" or takes and catching fish.

QUOTE:
Wendy Berrell wrote:And one other method - blind, but informed stripping of flies... meaning you know there is a pod of carp in a certain location, but due to positioning, vision, etc. you can't see any detail... I have had success throwing a nymph in there and keeping in contact with it... feeling "strikes" or takes and catching fish.

That is the situation that I am most often faced with. It takes persistence, but you will eventually hook up.

I know a couple of guys that fly fish the Red River in Manitoba below the Lockport dam. Visibility in the Red River is measured in inches, but they still manage to catch a lot of carp by blindly fishing the right locations.

andy wrote:

QUOTE:
You said the only sight-fishing opportunities you can find are when you fish dries to tailing carp.....this makes no sense to me.

Thanks for catching that Andy, after looking at my intial post again, I must have mistyped. I had a bunch of different ideas in my head at the time and must have crossed wires. What I meant to say (lol) was flies not dries. To be honest, I've never fished a dry fly to a carp yet, I've only nymph fished them. If I'm fishing a slough, I spot tailing carp and then cast nymphs in front of their feeding area. I use the same techniques of dragging a beadhead nymph along the bottom, and agree that it is quite effective.

I did see some carp slurping the surface a few times when I was out fishing the river for buffalo, but I didn't have any dries like CDC flies with me at the time. The next few times I was out with some dry flies, I didn't see any surface feeders, of course...


Basically my utilized methods for fishing carp are what Wendy had hit on: Partial sight fishing, Blind-nymphing, and blind, but informed stripping of flies. I think Justin and I are in the same boat as far as the methods we can use on carp in the prairie region here.


I guess my main intention of this thread was to see what others are doing out there, and if I was the only that was seemingly "wasting" my time by blind nymphing for carp. Thanks for the discussion all, very informative.

good post wendy berrel! and that day is still one of my best fishing memories. we were in the zone!

Anybody reccomend groundbaiting in a concentrated area, then using dry flies to sight fish or will the carp typically not take them?

I suppose you could, but in MN chumming is considered "littering" by many COs and therefore not legal.

(hides his corn chum)

In OR and WA chumming is illegal as well. In WA you do NOT need a fishing license to fish for carp.

9weight wrote:

QUOTE:
I suppose you could, but in MN chumming is considered "littering" by many COs and therefore not legal.

are you serious? when i first started carp fishing i read the entire regulation book 3 times to see if chumming was legal. i could not find anything saying it isnt.

The regulations book is just a synopsis of the most important regulations, but by no means is it a complete list. For technical items, you need to consult the Minnesota Office of the Revisor of Statues.

Here is an indispensible link: https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/pubs/


This is an excerpt from a letter from the DNR, regarding chumming:

Thank you for your question about the legality of chumming in Minnesota. This is a hard one to answer, because we have no law that specifically uses the term "chumming." Instead, we have a variety of laws that have application to this activity.

Based on Minnesota Statues 609.68 it is unlawful to deposit animal parts or the body of dead animals in a public water. So chumming with animal parts or whole bodies would be illegal.

Based on Minnesota Statutes 97C.325, it is illegal to take fish using chemicals, drugs, medicated baits, etc. Also under Minnesota Statutes 97C.341, it is illegal to use game fish, goldfish, or carp for bait. This would mean that any fish food, corn, or other similar substance with these items in it could not be used for chumming.

Based on Minnesota Statutes 97C.065 it is illegal to let any substance enter or be disposed of in state waters in quantities that injure wild animals. So what is a quantity of corn, fish food, or other similar substances that would be illegal? My answer is that it depends on the type of water body, current water quality, weather conditions, health of the fish, cumulative effects, etc. So, I can't tell you that a bucket of corn is ok, when under the right conditions it could cause a fish kill. Instead, it is an area of the law that we are considering clarifying as it relates to chumming.



Bottom line, I don't think you'd necesarily get a citation by a CO for chumming, but would rather get cited for littering.