Golden shiner size

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Susquehannock
Susquehannock's picture
Golden shiner size

I've done a little research and the most commonly stated maximum size for a golden shiner is 12", and I have seen pictures of fish on the internet that appear to be close to that size. I don't know what a twelve inch golden shiner weighs, but I'm wandering if a really big one might reach a pound? I haven't caught one bigger than about four inches, but I've only ever caught them in Pennsylvania.

What's the biggest golden shiner you've caught?

Susquehannock

philaroman
philaroman's picture
hey, I'm in Philly

most places I couldn't buy a shiner bigger than 6" or catch more than a few, but a couple lakes/res. have produced great numbers, consistently in the 7-9" range w/ an ultra-rare biggie in the 10" ballpark.  I believe they school more at that size & relate to the shoreline less.  When they get well over 8" they really seem to start growing "shoulders"...  also, they seem to be a bit more broad-bodied in still water.  I would guess a lean riverine 12-incher to be over 1.5# & broader lake specimen to be closer to 2#

 

BTW, I measure the PA way -- caudal tips slightly compressed for max. length...  other States measure to the caudal indent, which could make a huge difference, depending on species & specimen size

P.E.T.A. sucks!!!  Plants are living things, too -- they're just easier to catch!

Corey
Corey's picture
Golden shiner

Oh yes. I have been waiting for somebody to confirm a golden shiner reaching a pound for at least a decade. I have researched it but come up with nothing. Just last year we confirmed that creek chubs can reach a pound in rare instances, and we added that one. Golden Shiner is not out of the question, especially from Lake Okeechobee or near there.

 

It's definitely on the radar, and if anyone can verify them reaching a pound, they will be de-micro'd.

philaroman
philaroman's picture
well, I was guessing -- not

well, I was guessing -- not confirming...  just extrapolating from a beefy 10-incher close to 1lb...  but you made me look:

http://www.michigan-sportsman.com/forum/threads/world-record-golden-shiner-caught-in-mi.339821/

Fishbase says 32cm max., which would be bigger.  DE-MICRO DEM PUPPIES !!!

doesn't have to be Southern, either -- Northern fish may grow slower, but they live longer

P.E.T.A. sucks!!!  Plants are living things, too -- they're just easier to catch!

Susquehannock
Susquehannock's picture
11.5"

If that's real, that fish would probably be well over a pond. 

I did some research, to, and if you look at the book "Roland Martin's 101 Bass Catching Secrets" (don't judge, it was a gift) there's a very long chapter on live shiner fishing. Shiners in excess of twelve inches are mentioned throughout the chapter, and there's a picture of Martin himself with a very, very large golden shiner. This is a direct quote: "My first experience with big river shiners-and I'm talking about the 10-to-12 inch wild shiners which weigh up to a pound..."

There 're also some really solid tactics for shiner fishing in there, and it even says "they're a lot of sport to catch". Who knew you could learn to catch shiners from a bass pro's book. 

I agree with philaromen.

Susquehannock

andy
andy's picture
I'm skeptical

Need to see a pound golden shiner on a scale

Corey
Corey's picture
Golden Shiner Length/Wt Relationship

Take a look. Data mostly from gillnets and large-mesh double-frame trapnets which are biased towards catching only the larger adult shiners.

 

 

Maybe in Florida. Here the 12-inch shiner is as rare as bigfoot. But if you look at the upward curve on the scatterplot, you can imagine how it might possibly intersect the 1-pound line. Not sure if some of the heavier per length fish are mistakes or very fat shiners.

I'll have to see a pounder on a scale before I believe it exists.

An adult female golden shiner can carry an additional 10% of her body weight in egg and ovary mass immediately before spawning.

The 11.5 inch golden shiner came from Clear Lake near Waseca. Which is also one of the Trophy Bullhead Waters I wrote about.

Spawning season is from late May until August, over dense submerged vegetation.

 

 

 

 

 

FishNerd
FishNerd's picture
Golden Shiner

I think at one point, the Wisconsin state record golden shiner measured 12 inches, but that one only weighed half a pound.

Happiness is catching one's first sturgeon.

Carp Chaser
Carp Chaser's picture
Good topic, I searched for

Good topic, I searched for various state record golden shiners and found that Tennessee  has one recorded at 1.05 pounds from 2016. https://www.tn.gov/twra/article/tennessee-state-fish-records   ...It's listed under "other species". 

It seems that people sometimes catch rudd that are confused for golden shiners. So there is no way to be 100% sure of the species without a photo. Their previous state record was 15 oz. 

Life, liberty and the pursuit of life listers

Susquehannock
Susquehannock's picture
State records

I don't know about Tennessee, but in PA, you have to have a potential record fish identified by a state biologist. Also, if there are any records of European rudd in Tennessee, I have not seen them.

I'd say that that fish is definitely a golden shiner.

Susquehannock

Mike
Mike's picture
State Records

I noticed TN also lists Atlantic Needlefish.

Lake Idea in FL has a population of Atlantic Needlefish that is sopose to live out their entire lives in freshwater, traped in the lake and it's conecting cannels. (or so I was tolld)

I know they run far up rivers  throughout their range too.

Iy does not seem any different then the other fish that live in fresh & salt water.

What do you guys think?

I want to catch every kind of freshwater fish that gets at least 5 inches long.

 

 

Dr Flathead
Dr Flathead's picture
I think someone released a

I think someone released a needlefish from their tank in Tennessee.  There is no way they would survive the winter there unless they were living in a nuclear discharge area.  In a lake in Florida that was once connected to canals is totally possible.  But for needlefish to make it all the way to Tennessee thru rivers from the ocean is pretty far fetched.  I think that is what you are talking about here anyways.  If my cocktail hour language decoder is working properly...

Corey
Corey's picture
Carp Chaser - Tennessee Golden Shiner

Well I'll be dipped, I think Carp Chaser did it. That means the fish had to be verified by a biologist, weighed on a certified scale, witnessed, and notarized. I think we need to de-micro the golden shiner.

 

Also, a 1 pound 10-ounce white sucker is the state record? C'mon Tennessee.

Susquehannock
Susquehannock's picture
TN State Records

Yeah, that's a little lame. And why the heck does Tennessee have a cutthroat record?

Susquehannock

philaroman
philaroman's picture
well, you have to consider

well, you have to consider that most States don't (didn't) even bother keeping records of our beloved roughfish

PA only has Carp, Drum and Suckers (no mention of exact Sucker species, albeit the size is quite respectable):

http://www.fishandboat.com/Fish/PennsylvaniaFishes/StateRecordFish/Pages...

oh,  there's also a 4lb. 10oz. Bullhead of unknown species

AND, among Biggest-By-Year, an alleged 31" 14 lb. White Cat 

Biggest-By-Year links before 2015, appear to be DEAD -- PA Fish & Boat SUCKS A$$ !!!  ...can't imagine Tennessee  is any less broke :(

P.E.T.A. sucks!!!  Plants are living things, too -- they're just easier to catch!

Carp Chaser
Carp Chaser's picture
Very cool! Happy I could

Very cool! Happy I could contribute. I also saw that needlefish record, wild stuff. Yeah I was on the usgs site and I don't see rudd sampled in Tenn. However they are found in a reservoir on the Tennessee River in northern Alabama so their range covers this area. They're pretty widespread through the central U.S. and eastward. 

Life, liberty and the pursuit of life listers

Deftik
Deftik's picture
PA only changed their sucker

PA only changed their sucker state record because i sent them a humilating email stating their "white sucker" record wasn't a white sucker and if it was it eclipsed the current world record. It was promptly changed from "white sucker" to "suckers"

If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants
- Isaac Newton
Susquehannock
Susquehannock's picture
PA record

I didn't know that the PA record for"suckers" used to be in as a white sucker. If I would've seen that fish (it looks like a river redhorse) before they changed it, I probably would've sent the email. 

Susquehannock

philaroman
philaroman's picture
PFBC is just pathetic

I caught what I'm convinced were a couple tubed up, male Atlantic Smelt in Darby Cr. (Philly burbs)...  thought it was a BFD rarity, having never heard of such in 40 yrs. of fishing this geographical area (albeit, historically possible)

e-mailed PFBC twice -- no response

P.E.T.A. sucks!!!  Plants are living things, too -- they're just easier to catch!

pmk00001
pmk00001's picture
Doc -  Atlantic needlefish

Doc -  Atlantic needlefish entered the Tennessee River from the Tennessee-Tombigbee Waterway https://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.aspx?speciesID=324

Dr Flathead
Dr Flathead's picture
Thats pretty neat that they

Thats pretty neat that they can make it that far inland.  Very interesting.  I just checked in on their saltwater range.  They are found as far North as Nova Scotia.  I always thought of a Needlefish as a tropical Florida species, I guess.  Didn't even consider or think it was possible that they could make it that far inland much less survive a cold TN winter.  You learn something new every day. 

pmk00001
pmk00001's picture
Yeah, I was really surprised

Yeah, I was really surprised when I caught my first one shad fishing in the Potomac up along the fast water near the fall line.  Here's one I caught a couple of days ago while I was trying to catch gar bait.

 

philaroman
philaroman's picture
maybe they're like Bull

maybe they're like Bull Sharks which can travel thousands of miles up rivers & remain in F/W for years, before returning to the ocean

P.E.T.A. sucks!!!  Plants are living things, too -- they're just easier to catch!